Comments for Alethes (Truthful) Baptist http://alethes.wordpress.com All Things Southern Baptist Considered Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:59:33 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on who i am . . . by SBC Monitor http://alethes.wordpress.com/about/#comment-192 SBC Monitor Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:59:33 +0000 #comment-192 So, is that why some of the CBF churches are so liberal and some already have homosexuals standing in the pulpit? That's a far cry from "soul liberty." We are to submit to what the scriptures plainly teach. Questions should be asked for understanding, but not questions that challenge the authority of the text or the validity of truth. Are you saying that there was absolutlely no room for inquiry at Southern? That isn't all for which the CBF organization is known. There is plenty of documented evidence that demonstrate that the CBF is predominately a liberal organization. Are you saying that if some student at the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (a CBF school) questioned a particular liberal professors' view of the scriptures or another's professor's view of homosexuality that their inquiry would be welcomed? I can already give you the answer from a current student I met: the answer is NO! And that is what we had at Southern- current BTSR teachers who faciltated discussion in class that fancied their point of view. That's all. Your idea of people "thinking for themselves" is a joke. No professor, even using the socratic method merely lets his students "think for themselves." The questions are aimed at coming to a specific, solid conclusion or in the liberal's case, a particular opinion. As for Southern, I'm sure you would be pleased today if Molly Marshall Green was the president. That would have created a more open environment, for liberals, at least. I find it humorous that you would think that Dr. Mohler would instruct professors to exclusively teach Calvinism. All professors go into the classroom with a theological framework already established. Maybe we should ask Dr. Danny Akin if that's what he was told when he came to SBTS. It is also humorous that you would regard one of the finest evangelical minds of our times as a joke. I believe you called him a "clown" on Wes Kinney's blog. God has seen fit to preserve his life in recent days and I for one am grateful. We should thank God for sending such a man to lead a seminary that was on the brink becoming a siminary that produced more "doubters" of the truth of scripture that those who would boldly proclaim it. The studies proved it, Rusty. It's true. Just face it Rusty, you are bitter because some of your favorite professors got booted or left. You were already bitter when you arrived because you were upset after making the exodus from another prominent SBC seminary. The professors left there freely, but you put the "takeover spin" on the chorus you sing. Know with whom you are aligning yourself. In five to ten years as the old guard of vanquished heros fade away in the CBF, you will find yourself surrounded by more and more people whose sympathies are not even with an inspired text of scripture (much less an inerrant one). At least the current leadership has attempted to appear moderate. Their convictions will fall in line with many of the liberal mainline denominations. Slowly but surely, they will drift into oblivion. And not even Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter combined will be able to stop it. Learn from the past, Rusty, learn from the past. So, is that why some of the CBF churches are so liberal and some already have homosexuals standing in the pulpit? That’s a far cry from “soul liberty.” We are to submit to what the scriptures plainly teach. Questions should be asked for understanding, but not questions that challenge the authority of the text or the validity of truth. Are you saying that there was absolutlely no room for inquiry at Southern? That isn’t all for which the CBF organization is known. There is plenty of documented evidence that demonstrate that the CBF is predominately a liberal organization. Are you saying that if some student at the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond (a CBF school) questioned a particular liberal professors’ view of the scriptures or another’s professor’s view of homosexuality that their inquiry would be welcomed? I can already give you the answer from a current student I met: the answer is NO! And that is what we had at Southern- current BTSR teachers who faciltated discussion in class that fancied their point of view. That’s all. Your idea of people “thinking for themselves” is a joke. No professor, even using the socratic method merely lets his students “think for themselves.” The questions are aimed at coming to a specific, solid conclusion or in the liberal’s case, a particular opinion.

As for Southern, I’m sure you would be pleased today if Molly Marshall Green was the president. That would have created a more open environment, for liberals, at least.

I find it humorous that you would think that Dr. Mohler would instruct professors to exclusively teach Calvinism. All professors go into the classroom with a theological framework already established. Maybe we should ask Dr. Danny Akin if that’s what he was told when he came to SBTS.

It is also humorous that you would regard one of the finest evangelical minds of our times as a joke. I believe you called him a “clown” on Wes Kinney’s blog. God has seen fit to preserve his life in recent days and I for one am grateful. We should thank God for sending such a man to lead a seminary that was on the brink becoming a siminary that produced more “doubters” of the truth of scripture that those who would boldly proclaim it. The studies proved it, Rusty. It’s true.

Just face it Rusty, you are bitter because some of your favorite professors got booted or left. You were already bitter when you arrived because you were upset after making the exodus from another prominent SBC seminary. The professors left there freely, but you put the “takeover spin” on the chorus you sing.

Know with whom you are aligning yourself. In five to ten years as the old guard of vanquished heros fade away in the CBF, you will find yourself surrounded by more and more people whose sympathies are not even with an inspired text of scripture (much less an inerrant one). At least the current leadership has attempted to appear moderate. Their convictions will fall in line with many of the liberal mainline denominations. Slowly but surely, they will drift into oblivion. And not even Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter combined will be able to stop it. Learn from the past, Rusty, learn from the past.

]]> Comment on who i am . . . by Rusty Mullins http://alethes.wordpress.com/about/#comment-189 Rusty Mullins Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:26:30 +0000 #comment-189 The CBF is an organization that allows people to think for themselves. The SBC used to be that way, but ended in the 1980's. All of the sudden there were people who thought they knew everything and that everyone had to follow their lead. No longer could you disagree about anything they thought important or you were not considered worthy. That is very sad. My seminary years were a joke because Mohler turned a fine theological institution into a joke. I entered a seminary and graduated from the newest Baptist Community College for people who didn't want to think. Mohler instructed his faculty to discuss the importance of Calvinism in every class. He said things that embarrassed the seminary many times and he did away with the Social Work school. He ruined a school I had once thought to be great. The CBF is an organization that allows people to think for themselves. The SBC used to be that way, but ended in the 1980’s. All of the sudden there were people who thought they knew everything and that everyone had to follow their lead. No longer could you disagree about anything they thought important or you were not considered worthy. That is very sad.

My seminary years were a joke because Mohler turned a fine theological institution into a joke. I entered a seminary and graduated from the newest Baptist Community College for people who didn’t want to think. Mohler instructed his faculty to discuss the importance of Calvinism in every class. He said things that embarrassed the seminary many times and he did away with the Social Work school. He ruined a school I had once thought to be great.

]]> Comment on who i am . . . by SBC Monitor http://alethes.wordpress.com/about/#comment-95 SBC Monitor Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:23:00 +0000 #comment-95 "My seminary years were a joke and I get angry just thinking about how horrible things were when Mohler, the crowned clown of SBTS, became president." So...was it a joke because you didn't learn anything before Mohler became president or because your "guys" got the boot? Also, is CBF a conservative organization? “My seminary years were a joke and I get angry just thinking about how horrible things were when Mohler, the crowned clown of SBTS, became president.”

So…was it a joke because you didn’t learn anything before Mohler became president or because your “guys” got the boot? Also, is CBF a conservative organization?

]]> Comment on who i am . . . by Rusty Mullins http://alethes.wordpress.com/about/#comment-87 Rusty Mullins Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:00:03 +0000 #comment-87 Alethes, I am on the younger end of the spectrum as well - 37. I too am a minister in a Baptist Church, a SBC and CBF church in Virginia. When I respond on a board like this I feel I must say who I am if I want anybody to take my views seriously. I haven't jumped into the blog pool yet, but have considered doing so. What I write, what I preach, what I teach - all of that comes from my soul and I can not be ashamed of it. It is my take on what God is doing in my life and in my very soul and if I open my mouth and share it then I am not ashamed of it in any way. If you have political hopes within the SBC, then I will pray for you, but even with that you have to be true to what you honestly believe. There are current leaders who seem to change their "strongly held" convictions based on the way the wind is blowing and I have zero respect for them. Speak your mind. This may be easier for me. I am not a SBC person and could care less what anybody associated with the SBC thinks of me. I am a Virginia Baptist and very proud of being outside the loop - so much so that I consider myself primarily a CBF backer. I am conservative, but I don't think I know everything nor does anybody employed by any SBC agency or especially any SBC seminary. My seminary years were a joke and I get angry just thinking about how horrible things were when Mohler, the crowned clown of SBTS, became president. Feel free to express yourself. Jesus didn't preach from the shadows. Alethes,

I am on the younger end of the spectrum as well – 37. I too am a minister in a Baptist Church, a SBC and CBF church in Virginia. When I respond on a board like this I feel I must say who I am if I want anybody to take my views seriously. I haven’t jumped into the blog pool yet, but have considered doing so.
What I write, what I preach, what I teach – all of that comes from my soul and I can not be ashamed of it. It is my take on what God is doing in my life and in my very soul and if I open my mouth and share it then I am not ashamed of it in any way.
If you have political hopes within the SBC, then I will pray for you, but even with that you have to be true to what you honestly believe. There are current leaders who seem to change their “strongly held” convictions based on the way the wind is blowing and I have zero respect for them. Speak your mind.
This may be easier for me. I am not a SBC person and could care less what anybody associated with the SBC thinks of me. I am a Virginia Baptist and very proud of being outside the loop – so much so that I consider myself primarily a CBF backer. I am conservative, but I don’t think I know everything nor does anybody employed by any SBC agency or especially any SBC seminary. My seminary years were a joke and I get angry just thinking about how horrible things were when Mohler, the crowned clown of SBTS, became president.
Feel free to express yourself.
Jesus didn’t preach from the shadows.

]]> Comment on Paige Patterson’s Take on Alcohol by Rusty Mullins http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-86 Rusty Mullins Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:55:27 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-86 Good grief. Patterson is just another human being. He is not a prophet. He is not special. He is the president of a SBC seminary after many years of manipulating the system and pushing himself in the right places. His view on alcohol or anything else is just that - his opinion. Why anybody gives him special treatment is beyond me. As for my look at the issue, and I am merely a Virginia Baptist pastor, nothing more, the scriptures say not to get drunk. If you don't drink alcohol you won't get drunk, but is there a special spiritual breath-a-lizer inside us that determines when we go from non-drunk to sinning? I have never in my life knowingly drunk alcohol and never will. I have no need to do so. My life is no less rich by choosing not to drink beverages that could cause me to get drunk. The people who defend drinking alcohol, I have to question their motives. Are they so enamored by alcohol that they try to prove that its ok? Are the adicted to the drink and are trying to prove that its ok to drink something that could cause you to sin? If I'm struggling with something, it is not normally my reaction to prove that scripture says its ok, but I realize that I must make a change. Just a moderate perspective here. Good grief. Patterson is just another human being. He is not a prophet. He is not special. He is the president of a SBC seminary after many years of manipulating the system and pushing himself in the right places. His view on alcohol or anything else is just that – his opinion. Why anybody gives him special treatment is beyond me.
As for my look at the issue, and I am merely a Virginia Baptist pastor, nothing more, the scriptures say not to get drunk. If you don’t drink alcohol you won’t get drunk, but is there a special spiritual breath-a-lizer inside us that determines when we go from non-drunk to sinning? I have never in my life knowingly drunk alcohol and never will. I have no need to do so. My life is no less rich by choosing not to drink beverages that could cause me to get drunk.
The people who defend drinking alcohol, I have to question their motives. Are they so enamored by alcohol that they try to prove that its ok? Are the adicted to the drink and are trying to prove that its ok to drink something that could cause you to sin?
If I’m struggling with something, it is not normally my reaction to prove that scripture says its ok, but I realize that I must make a change. Just a moderate perspective here.

]]> Comment on Answering Jeremy Roberts by Rusty Mullins http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/29/answering-jeremy-roberts/#comment-85 Rusty Mullins Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:42:53 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/29/answering-jeremy-roberts/#comment-85 This seems to be, a Virginia Baptist who is not allowed an official voice in things SBC, that this is just another tit-for-tat question that continues to arise as the new SBC fights within its ranks. I support Wade in his efforts to be a difference maker, but comments like this I'm sure are made all the time. The blog is dangerous because sensitive information could be leaked, even if its unintentional. And this whole idea of not publicly saying anything negative about a fellow leader in any organization is such a side splitter! We can not govern what people say in this society, even if Big Brother, or in this case the SBC, doesn't want it said. Its hard to believe that the current arguements in this organization are between men and women who have at least six years post high school education if not eight or nine years of college and graduate work. I hear arguements with more merit when I listen to my children - ages 8, 5 and 2. This seems to be, a Virginia Baptist who is not allowed an official voice in things SBC, that this is just another tit-for-tat question that continues to arise as the new SBC fights within its ranks. I support Wade in his efforts to be a difference maker, but comments like this I’m sure are made all the time. The blog is dangerous because sensitive information could be leaked, even if its unintentional.
And this whole idea of not publicly saying anything negative about a fellow leader in any organization is such a side splitter! We can not govern what people say in this society, even if Big Brother, or in this case the SBC, doesn’t want it said. Its hard to believe that the current arguements in this organization are between men and women who have at least six years post high school education if not eight or nine years of college and graduate work. I hear arguements with more merit when I listen to my children – ages 8, 5 and 2.

]]> Comment on Paige Patterson’s Take on Alcohol by lks http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-76 lks Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:27:28 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-76 Disclaimers to being an intellectual, just food for thought . . . Pro 20:1 Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Referencing Thayer's Lexicon - The word, yayin {yah'-yin}, used in this verse for wine is Hebrew and is used interchangeably for unfermented and fermented wine, denoting the use for whichever would be appropriate. The word, shekar {shay-kawr'}, used in this verse for strong drink is Hebrew meaning: strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor. Whether wine, or intoxicating drink like wine, made from barley, or distilled from honey or dates. The word, shagah {shaw-gaw'}, used in this verse for "and whoever is deceived" is Hebrew meaning: to go astray, stray, err In the New Testament the word, sikera {sik'-er-ah}, is used for "strong drink,” which is Greek meaning: strong drink, an intoxicating beverage, "different from wine"; it was an artificial product, made of a mixture of sweet ingredients, whether derived from grain and vegetables, or from the juice of fruits (dates), or a decoction of honey. I'm still studying the Bible aspects of fermented, unfermented, new, good, old, sour and other referenced wine, but wouldn't beer and other such derivatives fall under "strong drink?” The Lord Jesus spoke at the Last Supper of the cup being drunk as His blood of the "new" testament and that He would drink it "new" in the kingdom of God. Matthew 26:28,29 Again referencing Thayer's Lexicon, the word, kainos {kahee-nos'}, used in these verses for the word "new" is Greek meaning: new, recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn. Mat 9:17: (Jesus speaking) Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. The word, neos {neh'-os}, used in these verses for the word “new” is Greek meaning: recently born, young, youthful, and the word, oinos {oy`-nos}, may also be used to mean; must, new wine. Could you intemperate the wine in these previous scripture references as fermented wine? It's my understanding to make alcoholic wine that it takes grape juice 40 days exposed to air to ferment. (I'm opened to correction for I'm far from being any student of its production.) In my assessment, to place the new wine into new bottles would be plausible to avoid contaminants of the old bottles and limit exposure to air thus preventing fermentation and spoilage of the juice, to preserve it for long periods of time in its original pure form. Could this be the same as the bottled juice that we see on the grocery shelves? Just food for thought . . . Disclaimers to being an intellectual, just food for thought . . .

Pro 20:1 Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Referencing Thayer’s Lexicon -

The word, yayin {yah’-yin}, used in this verse for wine is Hebrew and is used interchangeably for unfermented and fermented wine, denoting the use for whichever would be appropriate.

The word, shekar {shay-kawr’}, used in this verse for strong drink is Hebrew meaning: strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor. Whether wine, or intoxicating drink like wine, made from barley, or distilled from honey or dates.

The word, shagah {shaw-gaw’}, used in this verse for “and whoever is deceived” is Hebrew meaning: to go astray, stray, err

In the New Testament the word, sikera {sik’-er-ah}, is used for “strong drink,” which is Greek meaning: strong drink, an intoxicating beverage, “different from wine”; it was an artificial product, made of a mixture of sweet ingredients, whether derived from grain and vegetables, or from the juice of fruits (dates), or a decoction of honey.

I’m still studying the Bible aspects of fermented, unfermented, new, good, old, sour and other referenced wine, but wouldn’t beer and other such derivatives fall under “strong drink?”

The Lord Jesus spoke at the Last Supper of the cup being drunk as His blood of the “new” testament and that He would drink it “new” in the kingdom of God. Matthew 26:28,29

Again referencing Thayer’s Lexicon, the word, kainos {kahee-nos’}, used in these verses for the word “new” is Greek meaning: new, recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn.

Mat 9:17: (Jesus speaking) Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The word, neos {neh’-os}, used in these verses for the word “new” is Greek meaning: recently born, young, youthful, and the word, oinos {oy`-nos}, may also be used to mean; must, new wine.

Could you intemperate the wine in these previous scripture references as fermented wine?

It’s my understanding to make alcoholic wine that it takes grape juice 40 days exposed to air to ferment. (I’m opened to correction for I’m far from being any student of its production.) In my assessment, to place the new wine into new bottles would be plausible to avoid contaminants of the old bottles and limit exposure to air thus preventing fermentation and spoilage of the juice, to preserve it for long periods of time in its original pure form. Could this be the same as the bottled juice that we see on the grocery shelves?

Just food for thought . . .

]]> Comment on Paige Patterson’s Take on Alcohol by Derrick http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-74 Derrick Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:13:05 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-74 I certainly mean no disrespect to Patterson either....just stating an observation I certainly mean no disrespect to Patterson either….just stating an observation

]]> Comment on Paige Patterson’s Take on Alcohol by Derrick http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-73 Derrick Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:11:16 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/09/paige-pattersons-take-on-alcohol/#comment-73 Great article. When I saw Patterson's article in the BP, I almost vomited -- for ethical and biblical reasons. When someone pastes the text to fit his own view, then what is trully innerant that that person's own mind? -- His own view. Great article. When I saw Patterson’s article in the BP, I almost vomited — for ethical and biblical reasons.

When someone pastes the text to fit his own view, then what is trully innerant that that person’s own mind? — His own view.

]]> Comment on Answering Jeremy Roberts by Jeremy Roberts http://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/29/answering-jeremy-roberts/#comment-69 Jeremy Roberts Fri, 04 Aug 2006 20:48:38 +0000 https://alethes.wordpress.com/2006/07/29/answering-jeremy-roberts/#comment-69 Alethes - No, I don't think the BoT should fire Tom Hatley. Alethes -
No, I don’t think the BoT should fire Tom Hatley.

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